The Brand Atelier Show

Shayne Mackey (00:02)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Brand Atelier. I'm Shane Mackey and today's episode is incredibly special. This isn't just another interview. This is a conversation with one of my favorite people on the planet, my friend, my creative soulmate, and the visionary founder of the Engate, Jimmy Sardelli. Jimmy is one of the most intuitive, disciplined, and quietly brilliant founders I know. He's someone whose taste I trust so completely that he literally dresses me

and my horses and makes us look extraordinary. His bespoke show coats are so impeccable that I wear them to work and no matter where I am, people stop and ask me about them because they're not just beautiful, they're crafted, intentional and architectural like everything he creates. And the ingate itself is a reflection of that same eye from the impeccably curated retail world he's built, the exquisite tack collection he designed from the ground up.

Jimmy Sardelli (00:34)
.

Thank you.

Shayne Mackey (00:59)
to the experience he creates for riders who want craftsmanship, quality, and taste in every detail. If you know us, you know this. We can talk for hours about luxury, design, horses, world building, and the madness of building something you love. So today, we're inviting you into that conversation warm, real, thoughtful, and completely unfiltered. Jimmy, I'm so happy you're here, so let's get into it.

Jimmy Sardelli (01:05)
you

you

Glad to be here, and I'll try to not be feral.

Shayne Mackey (01:28)
All right.

That's allowed. Okay, James, let's start at the beginning because I know this story. I want everybody else to hear it too. What made you start the end gate? What was that moment where you said, okay, I'm doing this, I'm building this world?

Jimmy Sardelli (01:47)
think it stemmed out of a little bit of boredom of just so much of the same. I have horses, I'm a horse person, I used to ride professionally, and I go to tech stores and I was like,

That's boring. that's whatever. And it was just a bunch of the same stuff. And I got a little spoiled having had worked at Hermes and their equestrian division. And then after leaving that, you know, I had it a little bit before, but definitely after the fact, I was like, I can't find what I want.

Shayne Mackey (02:28)
And that's what I love because it's not just about building a store, you are building a standard. And I think that's what's so important about all of this. So I'm gonna pivot a minute because you have one of the most refined, instinctive eyes for design I think I've ever seen. And I'm not just saying that because you are you and me, but you see things that other people completely miss. So.

Where does that come from and how do you decide what belongs in the end gate and what absolutely doesn't?

Jimmy Sardelli (03:04)
I think it starts with a really good eye doctor.

Shayne Mackey (03:07)
⁓

And really good glasses.

Jimmy Sardelli (03:10)
Hahaha

I part of it is, ⁓ maybe all of it, I grew up with parents that were successful in their fields. were, my stepfather was a chef. ⁓ He won competitions around the world. My mother was a pastry chef. The details were always impeccable, which is why people kept reaching out to them for things, whether it was.

menu items when my stepdad was working at restaurants or when my mom was decorating wedding cakes, because the details were always spectacular. And I think having grown up with those types of details translated into what I loved. ⁓ I was lucky enough to work with and for people who did it well and...

I think with every job I did, every move I made from a working student all the way through college through the beginning of my professional career, I always went one step further with the next job. So what started out already with me seeing small details got elevated everywhere I went.

Shayne Mackey (04:26)
So, yeah, so it's not just intuitive in you, it was learned too, which I think is amazing. And I think people kind of underestimate how rare that is. you pick up more than you realize, I think, as you're growing up. Even the details you don't know you're gaining, you certainly are. So again, your eye is ridiculous. ⁓

Jimmy Sardelli (04:51)
I'm lucky to have worked with and for people at all levels that I think instilled that early on. None of it, yeah, none of it was ever big or flashy. ⁓ I worked for people that most of the time it was simple, ⁓ straightforward, but they really cared and thought about the details.

Shayne Mackey (05:00)
And that's important.

Mm-hmm,

which makes all the difference. So, yes. So one of the things I love about the Engage is that it's not just retail, right? It's hospitality, it's sensory, it's personal. It has a very specific feeling. And you and I talk about this all the time, right? About this world building. And I say it to you all the time, I say it to Stephen all the time, I say it to everybody. People buy on feeling and they justify on fact.

Jimmy Sardelli (05:17)
all the difference.

Shayne Mackey (05:44)
And so what do you want people to feel when they step into your world?

Jimmy Sardelli (05:52)
I think the biggest thing, and I get it regularly, people walk into my store, I do pop-ups at horse shows around mostly the East Coast, but I travel a little bit through the Midwest and ⁓ more coming. ⁓ The big thing is I want it to feel like the collection is curated, everything plays well together, it feels homey and warm.

Shayne Mackey (06:04)
More coming, more coming.

Jimmy Sardelli (06:18)
People always come in and say, you've got the most beautiful things. And part of that comes from, I just pick things I want to look at. I pick clothing I ⁓ like the feel of. I like the drape of. The things that I can't find, I produce, and it's a little bit got to kind of fit that same niche. So there's a warmness to it. It's not just racks of overflowing clothes. It's not bins of stuff.

I think the fact that it is an intentional collection of pieces that are meant to serve a functional purpose for sport makes a difference.

Shayne Mackey (06:59)
Yeah, but you use the word homie and while you walk in and it's very welcoming, I would also say it's a little more elevated too, right? It's definitely a lux place to be. And one of the things I love about what you do in the store, one, you change the store all the time, which I think is so fun. And as a friend on TextThreads, it's fun to get the I'm going feral moment.

when we know the story is changing again. But you hide little things. I think what's really amazing is that you put things in the place where people can discover them, ⁓ which I think is also pretty interesting.

Jimmy Sardelli (07:27)
You

I, for the first three years of the business, didn't do anything seasonal on purpose because seasonal things have to go on sale, they've got to get liquidated. It is out of style so fast. ⁓ And because of that, in order to make things sometimes look new, you move where it is. I had an ongoing joke that every time I set up the store, I have beautiful...

Italian crystal and pewter whiskey decanters. The whiskey decanters always gravitated to the kids section. Why? Dad's gotta look at something. He's not gonna look at his 12 year old kid in pigtails trying on a 37th show coat that she's like, it hurts my shoulders.

So, you know, a little bit of his tongue and cheek on where things end up. And at the same time, it's like, I get it. Like you're in there with your best friend and your best friend's shopping for tall boots and you're like, ugh, I'm not gonna watch her struggle to get into the 36th boot of the day. So I'm gonna poke around and it's like, my God, that's a really cool pillow or, that picture frame. We just bought a horse show photo. I think I should grab that.

Shayne Mackey (08:41)
You

Exactly. Yes, I send the, Jimmy, will you put aside this and this and this and this for me? So yes, it happens all the time. And that's why I love it because it's the magic and it's, you it feels like you're stepping into a different place and not just a store every time, which is what makes it so funny.

Jimmy Sardelli (08:54)
Thank

Shayne Mackey (09:07)
So I want to pause for a moment because your tack collection deserves its own spotlight because it's exquisite, truly exquisite. The craftsmanship, the materials, the stitching, all the refinement. It's like nothing that's out there in the market right now. And I am blessed to own much of it. ⁓ You created something that feels luxurious and intentional and very, very

deeply considered and thoughtful. And I want people to understand the level of design thinking that goes into that. So what inspired that collection for you?

Jimmy Sardelli (09:47)
So I was bored working for a job in the jewelry industry that traveled the horse show circuit. And while I was at the jewelry company, my horse that I have now was rehabbing from a little whoops. Horses have whoopses. And as he was coming back, I was staring at the bridle that was on his head that was not inexpensive. And I was like, it just doesn't fit right.

The noseband cheek pieces were down too low. The cheek pieces were buckled up high. My horse goes in a full cheek. So had he been in a D-ring, like it would have been buckled up into his ears. And I was like, ugh, none of this stuff fits. ⁓ They had designed.

probably re-imagined Tac for Horses when we all started doing these massive German horses in the 90s and nobody reconsidered horses as we started re-finding them again, making these sport horses a little more petite and not looking like they should be pulling a cart. So I was like, what do I gotta do here? since I had time at Hermes where we did custom Tac, I had years worth of

of

we did this sizing on this one, we did this sizing on this one, I own this bridle, this fits, this doesn't fit, I own this bridle, this fits, this doesn't fit. And I kind of went through and I was like, I'm gonna just start shimming pieces around. So as I was doing that, I'm like, okay, what's trendy at the moment?

It still is trendy, the double-stitched nose band that was originally done by an English guy, ⁓ got a little bit more fame through an American bridal maker named Jimmy Weeby, ⁓ probably 20 years ago, and then had a little bit of explosion, kind of simmered a little bit, and then kind of had a resurgence a handful of years ago. So I was like, let me just play with this a little bit.

On top of where buckles were hitting on the horse's face, I played with where the raised portions were across the horse's nose, the raised portion across the horse's brow band, because those details can dress up or distract from a horse as much as anything else. ⁓ So it became a little bit of a game of what can I play with, how much can I play with it, and here we go.

Shayne Mackey (12:17)
You know, and it turned out so beautifully, and I know you have both the hunter bridle and the coronation bridle for the hunters, along with a myriad of other styles for jumpers and ponies and everybody else. The one thing I loved is I had at the time two horses with two very, both beautiful horses, but with two very different shaped heads. And one needed one bridle and one needed the other bridle to make it stand out.

and make them look even better. And I think that's what's so great about them. And the one thing I love about your service is that, you know, we can interchange. know, one has a narrow face, so I needed a smaller brow band. And, you know, we worked with different things, and I think that's what's so nice about them. a shameless plug for all my equestrian friends who are going to listen to this. If you don't have an Engage Bridal, go get one. They are absolutely magnificent. And I have two, and there's one that...

Lauren, one of the trainers at my barn, will only let us use because it's the lucky bridle now. So ⁓ shout out to Lauren. ⁓ yeah, it's just an exquisite. And the halters are gorgeous. And the leads are gorgeous. And ⁓ you just have done such a beautiful job. And so ⁓ I'm going to pivot a little bit because you and I already know this. And I've been here from the very beginning.

and the late nights and the risk and the visions and the 3 a.m. texts and all of the... ⁓

Jimmy Sardelli (13:44)
You were one of the first phone calls when I was like,

I think I wanna do this. And I kinda have this plan and you're like, uh-huh.

Shayne Mackey (13:54)
And absolutely. And so I think you've shown up, you've refused to compromise, even when those of us around you have wanted you to. And you've given this brand absolute integrity because of that. But I want you to tell me the truth. I want the feral, unpolished truth. What has this journey the last five years really been like for you?

Jimmy Sardelli (14:21)
chaos, ulcers, excessive drinking, ⁓ sleepless nights. It's been amazing, rewarding, remarkable. ⁓ It's fun for me when I have the capacity and the ability to sit down, design something, and then get to see it come through, and then the way it's received by people.

Shayne Mackey (14:25)
You

Jimmy Sardelli (14:51)
⁓ you know, designing something that I think is cool and pretty and special is one thing, but then to see it get used and people like using it so much that they tell other people about it,

That's special because I don't spend a ton of money on marketing. Do I go to top horse shows? Do I try to get good placement? Yes. Does that get you everywhere? No, because these horse trainers are busy. They see things at the ring and they say to somebody, what bridle is that? Where'd you get that? That show coat's spectacular. Who made that for you? I haven't seen that fabric before. And that's kind of how I've grown over the last handful of years. I've got clients that have been loyal through my journey.

last 15 years in retail and it's been amazing.

Shayne Mackey (15:46)
Yes, it has been a very fun ride and I am so glad I'm on this journey with you and it's why I respect you so much because you build with intention and integrity. So let's, you and I talk about legacy all the time, right? Not in the dramatic sense, but in the real sense, right? And for those that are listening along, I did an episode a couple weeks ago about

the kind of the four pillars of brands. There's the influencer brand, there's the expert brand, there's the founder led brand, and there's the enterprise brand. And right now you're a founder led brand, but you're absolutely building something that could outlast you. so tell me, what does legacy truly mean to you? And we're gonna do a lot of prognostication. What do you want the NK to become?

five, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, so that you have your four horses and a house in Palm Beach and you don't have to work anymore.

Jimmy Sardelli (16:54)
I come from a stock of people that doesn't sit sedentary, so I'll probably always do something. But ⁓ what I would like to see it do is the mobile aspect of the horse shows grow a little bit more.

Shayne Mackey (16:59)
Me either.

Jimmy Sardelli (17:13)
The long-term vision, I was spoiled. was being at Hermes, a company that started off as a harness maker, moved to a saddle maker, and is now a global powerhouse in the luxury world. To be able to produce something, I don't want to say at that level, but maybe a Nordstrom to Neiman Marcus level, ⁓ department store style, not everything is going to be the Engate brand. Things are going to be...

wholesale to retail type products. And then where there are holes in the market is where the ingate will produce special products and the ingate products will always be of the utmost quality and ability. But I'd like to have a handful of these cool mobile units crisscrossing the country, hitting the best horse shows where the best clients and the best horses tend to be, produce the buzz and then eventually roll into

like full big-boy department store retail. Like bring this to the masses. We've already got...

Shayne Mackey (18:16)
would be exciting.

Jimmy Sardelli (18:20)
really cool brands as part of the mix. I've got some British Heritage clothing brands in. I've got some super cool new German brands. We play with the home collection because I like to look at pretty things and it softens up the aesthetic of just clothes and bridles hanging on walls. So, you know, the...

sprinkling of it is already there and it will continue to grow and evolve and get bigger and larger and out of control and my hair will get grayer and grayer and here we here we will go.

Shayne Mackey (18:53)
I'll

get those messages that say we're going feral and I'll just tell you I'm clenching and we'll just keep going.

Jimmy Sardelli (19:03)
Correct, correct.

Shayne Mackey (19:05)
Those are my favorite. So I want to talk about kind of truth for founders. If you could grab every founder by the shoulders of every brand, of small and growing brands, and tell them one thing about building a brand that actually really matters, what would you say?

Jimmy Sardelli (19:31)
The business isn't gonna grow or do more than you're willing to do in it, for it and about it. ⁓ I can produce bridles and do all the things and if I don't stand behind a product 110%, no one else is going to either. At the end of the day, I'm still the one that vacuums the floor. I still pack half of the packages that go out. ⁓

As we're growing, I'm adding a little bit more to that. My partner, Steven's been exceptional with running the back end of the website because I am not an e-commerce person. I don't shop online. I'm terrible at it. I want to touch it, feel it, smell it. ⁓ Can't do that through Amazon staples. Can I get there? Like, yeah, fine. But like, there's no thrill to me for e-commerce, which is tragic in today's world, which is I'm a little bit excited to see that there is

resurgence in real retail brick and mortar like people that are shopping at a higher end at a higher level really want to experience that tactile function of a space whether it's what you're sitting on what you're sitting next to and the product you're touching

Shayne Mackey (20:41)
I ain't

I am very excited about that as well and I'm seeing that too and I think you're seeing that start in fashion. We've talked about this, the Louis Vuitton store and Tiffany's and all this experiential spaces that everybody is doing and you're seeing that happen even on social media now. They're talking about how 26 is the year everybody's getting offline.

and really doing more activation and kind of in-person events. so it's exciting to me, but that was gold, ⁓ talking about how to grow and how you can grow. And I think it's so important because it boils down to capacity, right? You're only gonna grow as much as you are mentally, emotionally, physically capable of allowing yourself to grow. And being present in through

for with the brand.

Jimmy Sardelli (21:44)
And

one of those, think one of the big things is you have to reset down early because you helped me with my entire brand in the beginning, getting things solid and cohesive and all the things we've talked about it. We hashed it out 800,000 times. We continue to talk about it via stupid text messages, frantic phone calls, whatever. But at the end of the day, I don't want to deviate and go and

Shayne Mackey (22:01)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jimmy Sardelli (22:12)
do something a little bit down market. one thing I discuss on a regular basis is I'm struggling to find a sector for children. I outfit half of the best ponies in the country for the biggest horse shows. I still haven't found really good show clothes for kids. So I don't have anything really. ⁓ There's disposable stuff. There's stuff that you can find in every third store down the street. It's not what I want, so.

Shayne Mackey (22:39)
Right. And that's

the hard part too with kids because they grow so fast. And so, you know, what is that investment? You know, I mean, I appreciate that and you're going to find it or you're going to make it. I, everybody coming soon engaged for kids. I'm sure the line will be here by you're like, shut up, Shane. Shh.

Jimmy Sardelli (22:55)
Probably not.

But with that being said, it's like everything. Like I try to not compromise on the details on anything. Like there are moments when we sit out of stock for months on my most popular bridles because I won't use a different leather. I don't like it. I don't want it. So we don't do it.

Shayne Mackey (23:06)
Right, right.

Right. And again, that's what makes the end gate so intentional because the quality, you can trust the quality is never gonna go down. Okay, so we need to end on something fun. We're almost done. ⁓ But we have to end on something fun because the people need to know what is one thing you wish writers would stop doing? Just one.

Jimmy Sardelli (23:27)
Yeah.

Yep.

Okay.

Just one.

Shayne Mackey (23:54)
Yeah, but if you give me three, give me three. Give me the things. Come on, opinionated Jimmy. I know you have a ton.

Jimmy Sardelli (23:57)
Hi.

Is this gonna

be a fashion thing or is this gonna be like a...

Shayne Mackey (24:05)
This

is whatever. What is, what is, what are the things, okay, let me broaden it out. What are the things you wish writers would stop doing?

Jimmy Sardelli (24:13)
So I have two degrees in equine science and management. I rode professionally. I rode with old school people. So there are things that make my heart sink every time I see them. My horse has had back surgery.

Shayne Mackey (24:21)
you

Go.

Jimmy Sardelli (24:28)
When people sit on a horse, they put their foot in the stirrup and they slam their ass down on that seat before they picked up their other stirrup. Like that makes my heart stop every time. I think it's rude, it's disrespectful. I hate it for the horse. I hate it for the uneducated person doing it. ⁓ That's probably my biggest every day, like cringe. And I see it at every level. Yeah.

Shayne Mackey (24:55)
Okay, so

what's the fashion one? You wardrobe so many of us beautifully, by the way, it's time to start my new coat. ⁓ But what's a fashion faux pas that you want people to fix?

Jimmy Sardelli (25:11)
Nobody over the age of 10 should be wearing a legging or a legging type fabric. I don't care how thin you are. It's not acceptable. In public, we don't need yoga pants in public. takes 30 extra seconds to snap a button on a pant.

It's just that.

Shayne Mackey (25:37)
I got

it. I got it.

Jimmy Sardelli (25:41)
I mean, I don't care how good the fabric is, it doesn't hide anything that you think it's hiding.

Shayne Mackey (25:45)
and

no, and nobody looks at the back ever. Jimmy, I adore you so much. you for being here. Thank you for sharing your story, your taste, your wisdom, and this beautiful brand you're building with so much heart. This has been one of my favorite conversations and of many we've had, and I know listeners are gonna take so much from it. I am Shane Mackey. This is the brand Atelier. Let's build something that lasts.

Jimmy Sardelli (25:54)
I adore you too.